Topic: Down Syndrome and Cinema CoHost: Dani Elle

Joining Topher Mac this week is his oldest friend and holder of several relevant degrees (and a mother too!) to this week’s special topic Dani Elle.  In addition to exploring down syndrome centric movies they discuss the Oscars and box office results.  

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

All right, the Oscars. I know you're excited about that being such a big movie person as you are. It was the Oscars, the freaking Oscars, as I said in my last episode, which you haven't listened to yet. Um no, wait, I think you heard the episode where I mentioned the Oscars don't really mean shit to me anymore, right?

SPEAKER_00 0:20

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 0:20

I don't know. Well, I said that in the last week's official episode, not the special episode.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Oh, I'm in the middle of the official episode. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 0:28

Um, but I said all that and then I actually respected most of the results of the Oscars. So, real quick, I just want to go through some of the winners, not all of them. I think next year I'm gonna have to cover their Oscars because they did a good job of representing what was good last year.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

I mean, it's not like the Oscars have anything to do with movies.

SPEAKER_03 0:56

It's all about selling movies, thank you very much. Um, so uh, real quick, uh, you know, this this is a podcast that's all about the auteur theory, uh, or a believer in it at least. And so I'm gonna start with Best Picture and Best Director. Both went to the same person's project. That would be one battle after another, which I have not seen yet, but I've heard great things about from some good friends of mine. And Paul Thomas Anderson is the person who directed that. And you're the so this is not a visual podcast, but if you saw the look on this woman's face, she's like, What? Um, Jesse Buckley won Best Actress, and that I I put first at the top of my list because I just saw Hamnet, and Hamlet was so bleeping good, and I only watched Hamlet because she was so good in the wife. I mean, uh The Bride. It was the bride, uh, which is out in theaters right now and bombing like crazy, which is a shame because it's very creative.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

That's the part of your podcast, I'm at that's what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_03 2:03

That gotcha. Like, I like uh Maggie Jillen Hall, which was you remember the dark night? And that's what's fun about Christian Bell being in the movie, because it's like, oh, they're friends, they're working together. Um, but the woman did such a good job acting in that I said, I need to see something else she's in. Like, this is this is fucking such a cool, weird performance. I wonder what she does. And I I look it up and I find out she's very Shakespearean. Like a lot of her, she's very classically trained and has a lot of uh notable Shakespeare type roles, and then what you know it, she's up for an Oscar, and it's Hamnett, and it's such a beautiful movie, and I literally weeped during uh part of the film, but also that's because I'm a twin, and there's a thing that happens with twins in the movie that um you know that's a light spoiler there, but I can't watch certain things that involve certain subjects without getting really fucked up because you know I'm a twin and I love my twins, so that fucks me up a little bit. Uh I'm a little fucked up right now. Um hey! Best actor, Michael B. Jordan. I know both of us like Michael B. Jordan, right? Yes, yeah. He won, of course, for Sinners, but you haven't seen yet.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

I haven't seen it, but it's on my list of you know things to watch when my children are not running around going insane.

SPEAKER_03 3:24

Fair enough. I would have watched, I would have been okay with Best Picture either being sinners or uh what one. I didn't see what won, but like I just enough people, I trust their opinion, have said enough nice things about that movie that I'm like, okay, probably deserved that. Uh the best supporting actress was Amy Madigan for a horror film called Weapons.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

I saw that.

SPEAKER_03 3:49

The crazy old lady?

SPEAKER_00 3:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 3:51

Uh, that would be who won Best Supporting Actress, Best Supporting Actor. Uh, I'm gonna do like he did and not mention that piece. Uh not mention not shit talk too much. Uh, I'm not gonna say who won that because if he's not got enough respect to show up, he doesn't deserve to be promoted. Best original screenplay, Ryan Kugler for Sinners. I'm a big Ryan Kugler fan, as anyone who listens to the pod knows. I have a ton of respect for him. Best adapted screenplay, Paul Thomas Anderson. Best animated feature, you know what that was. K-pop demon hunting.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Oh god. It's so overreating.

SPEAKER_03 4:29

Look, I don't like anime, and I only watched that movie because of an attractive woman, as we do in light.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

You you don't have a seven-year-old who is hyper-fixated on that movie.

SPEAKER_03 4:45

She had kids that were.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Oh my god, it is non-stop in my house. It is all I the freaking soda pop song. It's like it's on repeat.

SPEAKER_03 4:53

Well, then you'd be happy to know that not only did that win best uh animated feature, but best song was golden. Um, best cinematography. This is huge, and I do want to take a moment. It is, of course, March. And you know, one of the things in March is that it is uh women's history month or women appreciation month. It's one of those things, anyways. It's supposed to be like a big woman month. I like women, I like women a lot, but what some people don't know is I used to apprentice under a woman director, photographer, uh, director of photography who is brilliant and I have so much love and respect for. And we're not even like homies like that, like, but this is just a good person who was very good at her job and who looked out for me. So seeing a woman win and deserve to win because it was the best one, if not the best, then at least good enough to be called the best uh shot movie of the year. And that was Autumn Durald Arkapah. And that's a name.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

That's a name.

SPEAKER_03 6:04

That's a name. I'd be calling her Ada if I knew her, because of the initials. Um and uh best original score, Ludwig Gorvanson, and you're like, who the fuck is that?

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:18

Do you like childish gambino, Donald Glover? Yeah, his number one co-writer when he does stuff is Ludwig. So like all of I think it was like all of Camp or most of Camp and almost all of uh what the fuck? I think it's pretty much everything that he's done, they work together on. I mean, he's he's an excellent guitarist and knows a lot about music. I said the thing about best song, this year there was a new category, and that was best casting. That went to one battle after another. I forgot to write down the name of the lady. So that is, I just wanted to cover all that before we got into it. In just a moment, we're gonna introduce. You you heard this nice young lady's um voice.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Terrible voice.

SPEAKER_03 7:06

You know, she says she sounds like a shrew, and I say, Who? Not you. Uh, and then she says, Um, that uh rhyming you're doing is pew, pu. Yep, yep. This is the quality listening that people were hoping for on their daily drive and or bathroom break.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

It would be more fun if I was like, you know, drunk or at least buzzed.

SPEAKER_03 7:33

You are midday sober. You're you're momming it up in this world. Um, yeah, so uh let me say it. We're gonna take a little short pause and get on with introducing you and get on with introducing what today's podcast is about. Hey, and we're back. We're back! A dinosaur story. I never get tired of saying that. That's what it's called, right? You're looking at me like I'm the like this is a this is a podcast, it's an audio only podcast, and you're looking at me like I'm an idiot. The audience at home, the listeners cannot see you. Uh, what do they say, dressing me down and not in a good way. Ladies and gentlemen, I am joined today by my oldest friend in the entire uh universe, uh, my dear friend Danny L. Danny L has a bachelor's in clinical and counseling psychology, a master's in professional school counseling. What I'm saying is, this bitch be smart. I'm sorry for calling you bitch. Don't beat me up. She we use our words.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

I'm like the you know, hardest person to offend.

SPEAKER_03 8:54

Yeah, there we go. So we're we're in it. Uh speaking of hardest person to offend, the reason I brought you in today is because uh at the end of the week on March 21st, we have go ahead and tell the audience.

SPEAKER_00 9:09

World Down syndrome day.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

World Down syndrome day. Now, I still uh we still got a little bit of stuff to cover before we get into the nitty-gritty of that, but that's why I brought you in. I wanted a professional to talk to me about this. Is our first ever episode, episode 10, if you include the trailer. Uh, and I do because it makes accounting easier.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

It works.

SPEAKER_03 9:33

Um, I wanted to actually cover like a real issue. And uh I wanted a real topic, not just an individual movie. We will cover other movies. We'll get into that in a little bit. Um, but yes. Sorry, the cats are walking. All I can think about. There's a cat coming downstairs. I'm allergic to cats. It said, A buddy.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

And it's probably the fat one that makes the no, it's the it's the old one. It's the crypt keeper.

SPEAKER_03 10:02

I think that's the one that I know that one. Yeah, that's the one I mean.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

It's like I know that voice. She she's been around forever.

SPEAKER_03 10:09

I don't have ADHD almost as long as our friendship. Oh my goodness, not even half. We're 34 years into this friendship.

unknown 10:17

We're not that old.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Not a chance. Speak for yourself.

SPEAKER_03 10:23

Okay, fine. Um, I'm really uh appreciative of you making time to be here. Uh, it's nice to have someone who's an expert so that we can talk about uh something real, and my dumbass doesn't get in the way of uh an interesting topic. And um, there's other things that qualify you for this topic. We'll get into that in a little bit as well. Um so there we go. Uh we're gonna we're gonna now take a little pause and then jump into the box office. Because I like them box office numbers. Box office nerd. Hey, we're back. Yep, that's it. That's where we are, and we're gonna talk about my favorite thing to talk about. Movies and their box office. Do you, Danielle, give a flying fuck?

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Not about the box office, no.

SPEAKER_03 11:17

It's okay. I do. We're gonna blow through this quick because put you on double speed through that part. That's fair, that's fair. Um, well, I will double speed, so then it's quad speed. How about this? March 13th to 15th, it's week 11 of the year. And the winner of the year. Domestic weekend winner is Hoppers. Hoppers added $28.5 million dollars. That's a Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures uh release. Um, it added, like I said, $28.5 million, making the domestic gross $86.8 million. International numbers $77.9 million for a total of $164.7 million dollars. That's what Hoppers did. It's trying to hop into your heart.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Is that like an Easter bunny movie?

SPEAKER_03 12:04

It sounds like I don't know anything about it because it's a family movie, and I gotta be a good one.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Oh, so it's probably like I mean, I'm it's giving Easter Bunny movie.

SPEAKER_03 12:10

It it is um, yeah. I don't know what it is. It's a Pixar movie. Oh no, it's not Pixar because it's under Walt Disney, but um it's in that vein. Uh number two, I'm not gonna front, like I'm mad that I didn't watch this movie because Reminders of Him won 18.3 million in the box offices uh this week. And that's a Universal Pictures release, and Universal Pictures right now is my darling because not only do they have Christopher Nolan, but they have made the announcement that their window is going from the shitty four-week window, they're gonna boost it up, and it's gonna be five and then eventually six uh weeks of movie, uh, a movie in a movie theater. That's a great window that's heading in the right direction. It is pro cinema, and I'm pro-cinema, even though I'm an amateur when it comes to making it.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

So FYI, it's not an Easter bunny movie, it's not an Easter bunny movie. I all I know is it isn't it is like uh an animal movie, but not Easter Bunny.

SPEAKER_03 13:20

There you go. Speaking of animal movies, there's a movie coming out. Uh they're doing an animated version of Animal Farm, and it's being produced by Angel Studios, which is like a Christian studio. Yeah. Isn't that weird?

SPEAKER_00 13:32

That's weird.

SPEAKER_03 13:33

And then when you see the cast, it gets weirder. Like Seth Rogan's in it.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Really? Yeah. That's a shock.

SPEAKER_03 13:41

Yeah, it's it's it's gonna be weird. I've got I I don't like animated films, but I kind of want to check it out because it's animal farm. And they're doing it with animals doing animal farm. Or I don't know. That's neither here nor there. Hey, you know, this is the box office. Um, reminders of him is like a really beautiful story. It has to do with a book, isn't it? I believe it is. Um, there's a lot of romance behind that story, and so it does kind of look interesting. It's just I don't have anyone to take to see it, and I don't want to. I just sat through Wethering Heights by myself. I'm not trying to watch another uh film and be like, I'm so lonely.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

No one wants to touch Mr.

SPEAKER_03 14:25

Winky.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

We don't see those movies, like I those are movies I watch on my own when they come out on, you know.

SPEAKER_03 14:33

Yeah, I was gonna say this.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

I mean, if we go to a movie, it's normally like a comedy or like an action movie. I mean, our first date. Mine of my husband's first date 17 years ago now. Uh Tropic Thunder.

SPEAKER_03 14:49

Great dream.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

That was either gonna be a make it or break it.

SPEAKER_03 14:52

I mean, it really sets the tone. I think the only thing that would have been better is if it was beer fast. Like, that's the only way it would have been.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

I believe we followed it up with uh Zack and Mary makeup for now.

SPEAKER_03 15:03

Oh my god, no wonder y'all are still together. Oh, that's the dream. I wanna take Grossy Zach and Mary. Big Kevin Smith fan over here. Hey, number three in the box office, an 824 release. Yay, 824! They did a horror film called Undertone. It brought in 9.3 million dollars domestically and internationally for that matter, because they didn't release internationally, which is a weird choice, but hey, they made it in fourth place. Scream added another 8.4 million dollars. That's a Paramount Pictures International. Uh yeah, I gotta figure out the fucking way to say that better. Not the way you're saying it, not the way at all, but um 106.5 million dollars domestically, it's made 70.4 million dollationally for a total of 176.9 million dollars. Say that at double speed. It's gonna sound like gibberish. Um, that does make Scream 7 the highest grossing in the billion dollar franchise. Billion dollar plus franchise now. Uh in fifth place, another family film, goat. It's about a basketball playing goat.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Like Airbud, but with a goat.

SPEAKER_03 16:25

It's animated, so it's not as cool as Airbuds. It's it's very there's a reason I haven't watched it. It fits into that whole thing of like I would need kids with me to even pretend to like this.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

I don't think my kids would even want to go see that.

SPEAKER_03 16:44

They're not big basketball folks. I mean they like basketball, but the kids in basketball, that's the target audience. If they don't like it.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

Now, you know, the new Mario movie comes out, they're gonna be all over that.

SPEAKER_03 16:57

Oh I yeah, I'm gonna be on that too. Hey, maybe we can get Lil G to um give a little voice memo for that episode.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Which which G? Well, I call little G uh You mean the little G that's taller than you now?

SPEAKER_03 17:12

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

He's 5'8.

SPEAKER_03 17:14

I don't want to see that. He's five. He is officially taller than me. Oh my god. So this is uh a dear friend of mine who I don't get to see very often. So you guys are getting a little snap of personal life inside of here. Uh I hope.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

And we have no damn excuse because we live in the same city.

SPEAKER_03 17:32

I am a very avoids people person at this stage in my life. I don't think so, like, you know. Uh $4.7 million. Sony pictures release uh releasing is where goat came from. They added that, and now their domestic intake, $90.6 million, $72.2 million internationally, bringing the total for your fifth-ranked film $172.8 million. A lot of people apparently wanted to watch a goat play basketball. I think the idea sounds bad.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

I'm gonna ask my kids if they want to go see it, but then I'm not gonna take them to see it because we don't do movies.

SPEAKER_03 18:20

That's $100.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

God, I mean for mediocrity. Three try take two adults and three kids at a movie theater. We save that for birthdays. Like Grayson will go see Mario in April for his birthday.

SPEAKER_03 18:35

Oh, that's awesome. It's also a little bit early for that birthday, but that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

Last year. What was it we saw last year? Dead people was it the other Mario movie? Did it come out last year?

SPEAKER_03 18:48

Um, I believe it came out either last year or the year before. I just think that's the first time.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Maybe it was Minecraft. I just came out last year.

SPEAKER_03 18:55

Minecraft came out last year.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

I know that that's so that's what we watched for his birthday last year.

SPEAKER_03 18:58

Uh, because it was one of the biggest.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

They always come out in April around his birthday.

SPEAKER_03 19:04

Yeah, alright. You know, that's not a bad uh bad way to spend a birthday. Honestly, like Mario is way better than I thought it was gonna be because again, I don't like animated films like that. We love the Mario movie, it was really good. I'm mad at it.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Like, I'm excited to see the new one.

SPEAKER_03 19:21

I just didn't like the Donkey Kong part, but other than that, it was great.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

It was alright.

SPEAKER_03 19:26

Um, the weekend total of the entire box office, according to box office mojo, is $83.3 million dollars for the weekend. That's down. Box office not doing so good. Two declining weeks in a row. So that's enough of this.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

It's just the experience is not what it used to be.

SPEAKER_03 19:46

Ooh, I'm gonna have to have you come in and talk about it. I did a whole episode ranting and raving that even me, Mr. Obsessed with movies, don't give a fuck.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Like, I just I have no desire. Especially as I get older with it. The price is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_03 20:06

Price is rough.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

And then concessions is ridiculous. Yeah. Our movie theaters here suck.

SPEAKER_03 20:15

They're they're certainly a step down from the New York theaters I used to go to. Now we have we have nice little theaters. Like our independent theaters are good.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

I'm saying this is someone who grew up with your old school movie theaters, worked at the damn dollar theater in high school, and I'm like, these theaters suck.

SPEAKER_03 20:36

They renovated that theater.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

I haven't been in it since it's nice. It's not a dollar theater anymore. I miss the dollar theater.

SPEAKER_03 20:43

Well, I mean, nothing's a fucking dollar anymore. But their concession prices are the most fair concession prices I've ever seen in a movie theater.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

If you ever get popcorn, ask for it to be made fresh. Like if you go in the morning, ask for it to be made fresh. I mean, I really don't go at opening and eat the popcorn.

SPEAKER_03 21:00

I that's not an issue with me. I don't eat popcorn.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

For anybody listening, don't go to a movie theater at opening and eat the popcorn.

SPEAKER_03 21:09

You've eaten yesterday's popcorn. You are. My mom would love that. She'd love stoked popcorn.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

We used to, of course, this was like 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_03 21:17

20 years ago now because we graduated 20 day and I'm doing something for that episode, so we're gonna have to have you back for that. Oh, I don't want to talk about it. I'm trying to decide which reunion. I might even do like a string of reunion movies leading up to it. I'm very excited about this.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

I am not excited about a 20-year reunion. I am not old enough to have a 20-year reunion.

SPEAKER_03 21:41

I you are old enough to have a five foot eight child. So, you know, that he's almost as tall as you.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Yeah, I was gonna say, like he's not taller than me yet. He's just right there.

SPEAKER_03 21:54

He's still a little G in my heart.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Until you see him.

SPEAKER_03 21:57

So let's let's go on to the next. Face. Obviously, this is a little bit of a different podcast than normal. Um, hey, it's nice to have friends aboard, right? Uh, we'll be back in just a moment. You're listening, and I haven't said this the whole episode because I suck at my job. You're listening to Shadows That Shine, a movie podcast. I'm Topher Mack with Danny L. I don't know if we ever said your name.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

I think you did when you when you said my like education and all that shit.

SPEAKER_03 22:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

All right.

SPEAKER_03 22:33

So, uh, we are back. And uh actually, we were just talking about how this podcast is live to tape. Uh, I like to mention it now all the time. There's I don't like cutting things out, so unless something like absolutely detrimental happens, I don't. So we just out here just fucking saying all the things, you getting to know us on a whole new level.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Reminiscing and everybody, welcome to our life.

SPEAKER_03 22:59

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Uh-huh. Um, normally right now I do re recently viewed and I do a like little deep dive on it. I'm just gonna real quick say um real quick, I'm gonna say that Hamnet. I watched that and it was brilliant. I don't remember if I said it in the last episode, so I'm saying it again because I highly recommend people watch it. It's a beautiful movie. I went to the movie theater and watched Anaconda with Jack Black and Paul Rice.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

Was it any good?

SPEAKER_03 23:31

Surprisingly it was um, it was good and some of it was great, and some of it was passable, so it averages out to pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Very good. I'd enjoy it.

SPEAKER_03 23:43

There is a scene in there that I'm like, they I hate that this scene exists because it it actually. I'm starting to rank movies on letterboxed that I cover and talk about in the podcast, and so I did that with this, and it lost a whole half a star because of one scene. Um, that being said, I actually had moments of fear because they shot it in such a way, like you get distracted by the comedy. So you're not on like normally when I watch horror films, I don't get scared because I'm ready to be scared, so it's hard to get me. But they do this razzle dazzle, and you're like, holy shit. I didn't expect that moment. I thought it was worth it.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

Um, I mean, I'm a big Jack Black fan and Paul Rudd, who doesn't love Paul Rudd.

SPEAKER_03 24:32

I mean, yeah. Those are two of like our generation's favorite people.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

So I mean, they've been around forever.

SPEAKER_03 24:39

Forever.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Especially Paul Rudd, the man that never ages.

SPEAKER_03 24:44

Yeah, and it's true in this. He looks the same he did in fucking clue, uh, Clueless. Not clue. Um, all right, so that's gonna be recently. Uh that's what I saw. Have you seen anything lately that of note?

SPEAKER_00 24:58

Um no.

SPEAKER_03 25:01

Alright.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

Nothing new anyway. It's like she's bad enough. I can't even remember the last movie. Josh and I just went to a movie a couple weeks ago, and I'm blanking on what it was. Seriously. Yes, I cannot for the life of me remember what we went to see. I wish you watched it so rare that we go.

SPEAKER_03 25:18

I want someone to see Weathering Heights so that I can talk about that movie because I'm still confused about how I feel about it. It was a very well-made movie.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

Like I will watch it as a filmmaker in me as soon as I can rent it from home.

SPEAKER_03 25:30

Gotcha. Um, it's just like the people, I'm sure you're a reader, so you might have actually read the book.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

Oh, we were forced to read it in at I wasn't class. Well, I was in the advanced classes.

SPEAKER_03 25:43

I was my advanced classes was government. Like, I know a lot about government. Uh history, I I'm fucking I'm there with that. Uh, not so much English. I was very uh good with math too, but I intentionally held myself back on that. But I I was supposed to be in the gifted classes for math.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Yeah, I was in all of the all of the gifted. Go on in your best. And then I stopped taking college level classes because I was like, you're getting too close to valedictorian, and I ain't doing no damn speeches. So when I when I moved to Wilberton, I was like, I'm gonna chill now. And then when I came back, I was like, sweet, I'm gonna ride it out. I'm like number seven now, I'm good.

SPEAKER_03 26:28

And you did. Um, we're shifting over into the deep dive. I'm not gonna stop and start for that. Um uh, but oh, but for the recently viewed, uh, you said you don't know. Uh I was gonna say you had to watch the move, rewatch the movies that we're gonna be talking about. And one of them is one you had never seen before.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 26:49

So we're gonna get into that. Um, so again, March 24, March 21st is Down syndrome day.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

World Down syndrome.

SPEAKER_03 26:58

World Down syndrome day. And uh you were telling me before I clicked this on, there's some sort of significance for why they pick March 21st. What's that?

SPEAKER_00 27:07

So 321, um, World Down Syndrome Day. Down syndrome means you have three copies of the 21st chromosome. So 321.

SPEAKER_03 27:18

321. What is with March and having like all the dates that sound like things? There's Mario Day, there's you know, we got Down syndrome, World Down Syndrome Day, you got uh, I call it Stone Cold Day, that's 316. You know, a better man would probably call that Jesus Loves You Day, but not me. I'm over there saying uh that it's the bottom line.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

October's the same way. Like October is like awareness month for everything. I mean, it's Down syndrome awareness month. It's uh I think it's breast cancer awareness month, too.

SPEAKER_03 27:55

Breast cancer awareness.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

I think there's several like awareness around.

SPEAKER_03 27:58

Yeah, there's a lot of them, but I just like that all of the ones on this is has to do with the actual there's Pi Day 3.14. Like all of these are like number related days, like that's why they're days. Um, yeah, so we're gonna what we're gonna do here, see what happened was we had a discussion about what we are gonna do when we get together. I want you on my podcast, and you came to me with this brilliant, I think brilliant idea of having a discussion about Down syndrome representation on the silver screen. And I said, This is I mean, that grabbed me. I love uh representation topics. Uh personally, I have a lot of those conversations. I try not to have too many of them on here, but this one is one that I don't think anyone has talked about, really. Uh, one of my favorite um older films is a movie called Freaks, which has to do with uh okay, I need to get this out of the way right now. I'm a stand-up comic. I am uh I like to pretend that I'm an intellectual on the inside of my brain, but I know better. Uh I am flawed deeply when it comes to discussing certain topics. I I accidentally am likely to use improper terminology today. Uh my buddy Danielle is gonna correct me when she can, but I'll try to, but I'm just as bad.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

I'm I am like I am not the politically correct person.

SPEAKER_03 29:36

All I can say is the two of us sitting at this table right now having this discussion have a great deal of love for the topic and the people affected by it. As a matter of fact, the person at my table has a direct connection to uh a bright light uh that is affected by the by Down syndrome. Um and I have a distant relative that has Down syndrome that was around me a lot when I was growing up. And we're gonna get into more of all that as we go. Um we chose to hyper focus on three movies. I also sent you a scene from another movie.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 30:17

So real quick, uh oh, the reason I'm saying all that though is basically, hey guys, if we say something that's offensive, um it's okay to call us out, um, but we're not intentionally trying to piss anyone off, and we're not intentionally trying to misword things. It's a fucking landmine to have a conversation like this. Yes. And we're gonna be talking about um so I was saying freaks. I think they use the term uh non-able-bodied uh now, but they were people that were carnival sideshow people. They were actually cast people with all the real stuff. Uh, they did that a little bit when they did the freak show season of uh American Horror Story, which is kind of a tribute to freaks.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:01

Freaks was a great fucking movie that was ahead of its time because culturally they weren't ready to see what was there. It's a lot of great acting from people you wouldn't expect great acting from because they're not experienced actors, but except they kind of are, and that's sort of uh maybe relevant to this. Yeah, because if you're in an environment where you're the outsider, you learn how to perform a role, so it does make you inclined to be a better performer.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Or you're like Caden and you learn how to kick somebody's ass. Oh, we're getting into that.

SPEAKER_03 31:38

We are getting into that.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

By the way, Caden is Caden is my son who just turned seven and he has Down syndrome, and anybody who messes with him will get their ass kicked by him and not his brothers.

SPEAKER_03 31:51

That's right, that's right. He's a big old ball of energy. Um I haven't seen him in a few years now, but he is just there's something about this isn't even movie related, but like I have always felt like people with Down syndrome, there's something about them that has this weird like you can't even avoid it, joy that exists in the way that they see it's like you can see them seeing the world in a way that you forget to look at the world.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

I think it it kind of draws your inner child out, even when even when they're doing nothing. I mean, I'll be putting him to bed and he makes he makes us lay in bed with him. We're trying to get past that. But he'll just look up at me and smile, and I'm like, stop smiling at me, you'll just shit and go to bed. Like, and I like I don't want to smile back, and I don't want to like make him like know that, hey, I can you know stay awake because I'm cute. Like, no, no, you are cute, but go to sleep.

SPEAKER_03 32:49

Um, and you know, that's what's kind of it's just really interesting to me that oh, I lost my train of thought. Bleepity, bleep, bleep, bleep.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

You do that a lot.

SPEAKER_03 33:01

I do. Gotta love a host with ADHD.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

Um There's just an innocence about them that draws, yeah, draws people in. Um, I mean, having Kaden is the youngest of three boys. So having three kids, you know, we we would frequently get stopped. Oh, you're you know, your kids are so cute. People stop you and tell you your kids are cute. But never to the extent that people would with Caden. Like people interact more with him than e any of the other kids when they react.

SPEAKER_03 33:34

I can't help it. Like he takes the room. So here's like the awful truth of me. I get really unconquer on people with um special needs. I think that that's a universal truth, but maybe I'm wrong. But I just know me and I'm just gonna speak about me. I get very uncomfortable because it's sort of uh, you know, the beginning of Talladega Nights when he's like, What do I do with my hands? That's just my entire existence becomes that in that moment because I don't want to let down a fellow human being.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:04

And I especially don't want to just because I'm a little uncomfortable that things aren't the way that I uh am used to and comfortable with.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:15

And you're gonna get some uncomfortable moments when you're dealing with people that have special needs. So I get like weird and sometimes clammy, but especially when it comes to people with Down syndrome, there's just this I have found there to be this weird level of joy that finds you. It sneaks up on you too. Because at first there's that discomfort of, oh, here's a person that's not likable. And within, you know, 30 seconds or it's probably why he gets the attention he does in public because he takes control of a room and he's just so damn likable.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

And he's cute. Like he's he's just like you cannot argue with the fact that the child's cute. That's why he's in trouble at school all the damn time, because they think he's cute and they're not stern with him the way they need to be. And so he does whatever he wants.

SPEAKER_03 35:06

He only listens to the one teacher and she has to lay the law down, which is going to be something we talk about when we talk about these three films. Real quick, I want to power through background on the three main movies that we're gonna be covering. First, uh, let's do this in order of release. No, no, I'm gonna do it in a different order. Okay. Um, the main film we're gonna talk about, Peanut Butter Falcon 2019. That's a PG-13 movie. It made uh 20.5 million domestically, 3.3 internationally for a total of 23.7 million, released by Roadside Attractions. It did that on a $6.2 million budget, which means it made money. I think that matters. Because there's not a lot of movies like this, and it made money, and that doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

It's definitely it's not a mainstream movie.

SPEAKER_03 36:00

It's not a mainstream movie, but it made it made enough money that you're like, why don't they make more movies?

SPEAKER_00 36:06

Yeah, and I I will say, have had we never had a child with Down syndrome, I don't think I ever would have watched that movie. Like, I don't think I would have ever, but like having a child with Down syndrome, and you see a movie with somebody who has Down syndrome, you're like, oh, let's let's watch it.

SPEAKER_03 36:22

What's interesting to me about it is Shiloh Buff is in it, and he's great in it.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

Well, he was phenomenal in it.

SPEAKER_03 36:27

He's basically a playing himself, but pretty much and it was uh set in North Carolina. Yeah, yeah. Um The Outer Banks, I believe. It was released August 29th, 2019. Uh, it was directed by Tyler Nilsen and Michael Schwartz. The next movie that uh is gonna be talked about, which unfortunately I have not finished yet. I'm halfway through it. Champions. It's a 2023 release, PG 13. Now, unfortunately, it's a post-pandemic movie, so that means it didn't do so well. It did 16.4 million uh domestically, 5.5 million uh internationally for a total of 21.9 million. It's a focus features release. It did so with a budget of 30 to 40 million dollars. This movie has significance that I'll get to when I talk about the next film. Uh Bobby Farrelly, uh, the Farrelly uh. Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. Bobby Farrelly directed that. Um then in 2000. Ooh, I'm gonna sneeze. Don't do it. Cover the mic. Sorry, y'all. We're keeping it right into the mic. I am, I am. I'm not used to being mics like this. Normally I can like get away from the phone, but I connected to the mic today. Um, The Ringer 2005. This is the Johnny Knoxville film that some people may remember that you had not seen the and might have even forgotten about. Because I brought it to your attention to think that you were like, What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_00 38:05

And then as soon as I I was telling my husband's like, I gotta watch these movies so I can do this thing with Tofer. And he was like, Oh, the ringer? Yes, let's watch it. He's like, I haven't seen it in so long. And I was like, Of course you would see it.

SPEAKER_03 38:17

It's gotta be like him seeing that has to be like when I watch movies that take place in New York now. Like now that I've experienced it and watches so different.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

Not to mention, I mean, that was like that was our high school era.

SPEAKER_03 38:30

Yeah, I mean, it was. Um, I mean, it was the end of it, but yeah, yeah. Matter of fact, uh, speaking of which, it came out December 23rd, 2005. So, yeah, 20 years ago, uh 20 years and a couple of months ago. $35.4 million domestically, $5 million internationally for a $40.4 uh million dollar release. That's Fox Searchlight Pictures. Its budget was $20 million, so it pretty much made its money back. It was worth doing in the long run. Um that's all the boilerplate stuff that I need to talk about to get us into the actual discussion. I said champions matters because of the ringers. So I would like to start there and get these two movies out of the way. Uh, we're talking about representation, right? Um one of these movies, both actually, all of these movies deal with sports in one way or another.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:30

And I don't know if you were cognitive of that or if you like caught on to that while we were watching it. We didn't do that on purpose.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

No, it just happened.

SPEAKER_03 39:38

Every time people talk about Down syndrome or deal with Down syndrome people, it seems like athletics comes up a lot. And I wonder if, as a mother of a Down syndrome person, if your son has a lot of interest in sports or physical activity.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

Oh, he's a fighter.

SPEAKER_03 40:01

Oh, buddy.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

Like, he is a he is a fighter. Um, him and Grayson, Grayson's less than two years older than him. He's got he's about a head taller than him, but he weighs less than him. And they fist fight all the time. And I keep telling Grayson, like, dude, I know you're older and a little taller, so you think you can take them, but Caden is going to kick your ass. You've got to stop fighting him. Like it almost always ends with Grayson in tears. Like when they're in high school, it's not gonna be Grayson fighting somebody because they made fun of his little brother with Down syndrome. It's gonna be his little brother with Down syndrome kicking somebody's ass because they're making fun of his big brother.

SPEAKER_02 40:41

Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

Like that's exactly what's gonna happen. So, I mean, I've literally I have a video, I'd have to find it and show you. Um, it's from we we have cameras everywhere in this house because of Kaden. He cannot be left like unattended. So I have a video from like right here in front of this entry table. Um, Caden kept throwing his head back and telling Grayson to get off of him. Grayson wouldn't, well, he ended up headbutting Grayson. Grayson starts crying.

unknown 41:07

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 41:07

Caden's head hurts, so he turns around and just clocks Grayson, just like a one, two, three punch, and Grayson's like down on the ground crying. And I'm like, I I have a buddy who's a um a boxing instructor, so I sent it to him. I was like, hey, can you work with Kate?

SPEAKER_03 41:22

Right? Maybe there's gonna be an MMA champion down the road.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

I mean, the kid, he's definitely not just the fighting, but he's definitely very physical. Um, he likes kicking a soccer ball around, he likes trying to hit a baseball.

SPEAKER_03 41:36

Yeah. Um so in that regard, these movies covering um athletics and attaching that seem seem sensible then to I know my uh relative I mentioned earlier, is like a second or third cousin, I can't remember exactly. Uh she was very into pro wrestling. And um, everyone else I've ever known that had Down syndrome was extremely into pro wrestling.

SPEAKER_00 42:06

So it's side note, uh, we have a friend who for some reason he's like, I want Hayden to be into like I want him to be obsessed with wrestling. So the last birthday, he brought him um, oh my god, I can't remember which wrestler. It was like a stuffed animal of a wrestler. Um it might have been Stone Cold Steve Austin.

SPEAKER_02 42:29

What?

SPEAKER_00 42:30

I can't remember, but it's he's got a stuffed animal of a damn wrestler somewhere, and his star buddy's like, I'm gonna get him into it. Like, what's gonna happen?

SPEAKER_03 42:38

If there was ever a family that I could believe would break this stereotype, it's this one. You are not a wrestling person. No, Josh is not a wrestling person, not at all. Um, which is ironic because like I grew up around the wrestling business, and so you've had to hear me talk about wrestling a lot because I used to be very into wrestling back in the day. I I mean I was literally a pro wrestler.

SPEAKER_00 43:05

Um I mean, we were more like traditional sports versus wrestling growing up, I mean baseball, softball, all that.

SPEAKER_03 43:14

Um, so I brought up all that to say uh the ringer and champions kind of cover very similar I think that they were trying to do the same thing, which was face representation head on. But one did it 20 years earlier and did so in a way where you have um how do I say this? The ringer has people who have Down syndrome playing alongside people who don't have Down syndrome, but they're both playing Down syndrome.

SPEAKER_00 43:51

Well, not necessarily um, or different intellectual disabilities.

SPEAKER_03 43:56

My apologies. Yeah, you're right. Um, but you have not just Just the whole Johnny Knoxville's pretending to be. But I remember reading and they were like, oh, they had real uh people with learning disabilities in this. And I went, oh, that's so exciting. And that's why I recommended it for the pod. I had never seen it. And then I'm watching it going, wait a minute, I know that actor. That actor doesn't have an intellectual disability. But I know that one. That one doesn't either. What the fuck is this? I turns out only two of the people in the main cast actually had.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

Well, uh, there was the core group of boys.

SPEAKER_03 44:36

Um was fucking hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

Okay. Him and that C D. You picked up my CD. We got ice cream daylight.

SPEAKER_03 44:43

Yeah. C D. Um no, for me it was the ice cream line.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

Oh yeah, the ice cream line.

SPEAKER_03 44:49

We got fucking ice cream? What is this?

SPEAKER_00 44:53

I I will say the ones that weren't, you know, special needs, I think they did a fairly good job portraying it without it trying to, without coming across like making fun of it.

SPEAKER_03 45:06

Yeah. And I like that the purpose of, I think the purpose of that movie and the purpose of the other one was uh being champions. I felt a strong sense of don't fucking judge what these kids can do. You would be surprised what these kids can do.

SPEAKER_00 45:23

Just, I mean, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 45:24

Well, I mean, I've said kids, but they were adults.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

Might be a spoiler, but uh The Ringer, it was, you know, that it was the special needs group that picked up on the fact that, hey, you're not, you're not like us. Oh, yeah, yeah. Like you're you're screwing around here.

SPEAKER_03 45:37

They just said it different, but it was the same thing. And that's because, you know, intellectual pursuit does not uh equate to superiority. And in fact, it can sometimes muddy it up and surprise um the results. I I don't know. I I said that weird, but you get what I'm trying to say. Um see, that's me trying to sound fucking smart, and wouldn't you know if somebody else could walk in and just be like, yeah, fucking like just because I don't instinctively know what Shakespeare meant when he said what he said doesn't mean I'm I can't figure out that you're a fucking douchebag. Um so The Ringer was a fun watch. It was. I got halfway through champions and the halfway that I'm at, it's a very good movie.

SPEAKER_00 46:33

It's a good movie. And I think Woody Harrelson's character did it like he did a great job with that character because like the the whole point at the beginning of the movie with his like normal team, he wasn't taking time to get to know the players. And so the whole movie revolves around him learning that each of these kids are, you know, yes, they're different, but they can still do all these things. Like there was the one kid with Down syndrome who was living on his own and working a job and everything.

SPEAKER_03 47:04

And then, you know, a common theme in all three of the movies um is how shitty people are.

SPEAKER_00 47:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:10

Like standard edition people suck.

SPEAKER_00 47:14

Yeah, standard edition, I like that.

SPEAKER_03 47:16

Yeah. Um, and I, you know, it you would want to sit there and be like, yeah, this is a cliche, uh, that they're gonna have this in the movie. But I'm sure you being a mother have come across some of this stuff before. I, as a stand-up comic, have gotten to a point because of the love I have for your family. Uh stand-up comedy clubs are trying to bring uh the R-word back. And they are. I mean, they use it a lot. A lot of comedians use it very frequently.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

See, a lot of people are offended by it, but as for me, like, kind of like I mean, like when we were growing up in high school.

SPEAKER_03 47:54

Hey, it's Topher. Um interrupting myself here. We had a weird uh technical glitch happen here. I was trying new microphones out, and I accidentally did something wrong. So we just lost a huge chunk of conversation, and I found this out while I was reviewing. Um and so I'm just gonna jump ahead to when the sound issue resolved itself, and I apologize, you missed a part where we talked about basically uh Danny was saying that uh she's not super bothered by the uh use of the words unless they are uh used in ways to you know basically weaponize against people. Now these are my words, summarizing her words here. But she's basically like words are just words, but also like don't use those words against people as an attack because that makes it wrong. So that's the part you missed there, and I apologize for the uh technical error. Um I'm still learning, season one, yay! You know, it's funny because this movie came out when we were in high school, and that was definitely the way that we talked. But The Ringer is the only one of the movies that doesn't use the R word. It's it does the abbreviated, it says Tard. They never say the whole word at any point in the movie. And you know, I have to imagine that that was a decision that was made and uh on purpose, but the other ones do it at times when it's absolutely unacceptable to say the word. Yeah, it's the same thing as watching Django and an N-word pops out. It's more honest to the reality of it. Ringer is it's almost like a little like popcorn y version of Yeah, you tell him, cat.

SPEAKER_00 49:57

She's mad because I walked her out of the room.

SPEAKER_03 50:00

I don't know if it registered in the mic, but it cat me out, and and maybe you heard it, maybe you don't. That's what you deserve for giving us that awful 2019 movie. Cats. Um yeah, I I did think it was interesting though, watching these movies, and it's like they're using these words and they're trying to heighten the exact the I I have too too much ADHD for this. Um the word is is uh used to heighten tension in these other movies and to highlight very clearly and directly there's a difference between one and the other.

SPEAKER_01 50:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:48

The ringer, even though that is the whole fucking premise of the movie, is ha ha ha, aren't we better than you because we're able-bodied, and then they're fucking getting smoked by you know, like I just I found that interesting, and especially because at the time you could have said you could have used those words at that time, and they were intentionally trying not to. And then a few years later, everyone's like ripping on everything and saying you can't, uh, you know, the issues of free speech came up later, and they are using those words during that time that they would not intentionally would not use out of choice, out of respect for a community earlier. Of course, one is a comedy, the other two movies, not so comedy.

SPEAKER_00 51:34

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_03 51:36

Speaking of which, I've intentionally been not talking about Peanut Butter Falcon because of the three movies that we've talked about, that's my favorite one.

SPEAKER_00 51:43

It was it was a great movie.

SPEAKER_03 51:45

I mean, it's a solid fucking movie.

SPEAKER_00 51:47

It's and there there's a lot of things to take away from that movie that I don't necessarily know. I don't know that you would take away the same things from it that I took away from it having a child with Down syndrome.

SPEAKER_03 51:58

I'm sure I would not. I'm definitely on the other side. I'm the Shiloh LaBeuf in that. Like I'm the dude that's lost his way.

SPEAKER_00 52:06

And the thing is, when it came to interacting with, and I can't remember the what was his name? I can't remember the character's name, the one with Down syndrome. When it came to interacting with Falcon, we'll call him Falcon. Yeah, Falcon. Um Shia LaBeouf's character, I believe, interacted with him more appropriately than anybody else did. Because he he approached him as if he was just your normal everyday average person. He didn't go out of his way to say, you can't do this, you can't do that. In fact, he even uh corrected the um social worker or the the lady from the home. He even corrected her at one point, like, don't treat him like he can't do these things.

SPEAKER_03 52:54

Exactly. Because she's I mean, she's a volunteer and she's doing the best she can try and because like obviously she cares, but she's just caring the wall wrong way, and that'll happen.

SPEAKER_00 53:04

And I I think a lot of people try to uh with not just down center with anybody with special needs. Um a lot of people, what's we infant infant, I can't say infantilize.

SPEAKER_03 53:16

All right, miss, I have a master's.

SPEAKER_00 53:19

They treat them like like babies, basically, no matter their age.

SPEAKER_03 53:23

Infantilize.

SPEAKER_00 53:24

Um and just like in champions, I don't know if you got to that point, but he brings the other coach in and he's like yelling at the little girl with Down syndrome, and she's like, I have Down syndrome, I'm not deaf.

SPEAKER_03 53:36

Not that far yet, but I believe that. Um, you know, I oh golly, golly G wins. What? Oh, I was gonna say something. I knew it was so interesting, but I was listening too hard.

SPEAKER_00 53:50

Well, now would be the perfect time to take a break because we're gonna have to transition to the car.

SPEAKER_03 53:53

Taking a break. All right. Um, I don't know if I just cut you off on this. Uh so we're back.

SPEAKER_00 54:01

We're back.

SPEAKER_03 54:02

We're on the road. This is the uh recording on the road for the second time of this podcast. Um, all right. Peanut butter falcon. I wanted to get a little bit deeper on that dive because I have my family member that was so into wrestling, and I grew up around wrestling, and pro wrestling seems to be a very important uh thing for people of all kinds of disabilities. That's that's the experience that I had.

SPEAKER_00 54:36

And um Caden just likes to fight. Well, you know, I don't know about wrestling so much as fighting. He just wants to fight. Do not make him mad.

SPEAKER_03 54:45

It is interesting. It's like it's almost like all the writers of these projects have this mindset of, okay, well, if they're forgive me for wording it this way, but like if they're intellectually intellectually inferior, they're certainly not physically.

SPEAKER_00 55:02

No, they're not.

SPEAKER_03 55:04

And then you have that moment in Peter Brother Falcon where he goes to lift up child above. And I'm like, that's that that checks out. That is accurate. Because you know that's gonna be Caden in in another 10 years. Like, ow, my arm.

SPEAKER_00 55:20

I will say Caden is Caden's strong, like that low muscle tone thing. I don't know what the hell they're talking about because that kid ain't got none. Is that what they say? Low muscle tone is one of the um one of the things with uh Down syndrome. It's one of the reasons he they walk later and sit later and and everything like that.

SPEAKER_03 55:43

Well, that's strange because I've always known people with special needs to be a little bit like stronger.

SPEAKER_00 55:50

I think with Caden, um Caden doesn't seem to register pain as much as a typical person. Um, how did you put it, standard edition?

SPEAKER_03 56:03

Standard edition.

SPEAKER_00 56:05

Um so uh maybe it's just that like muscle recovery is better, but the muscle tone itself. It's not that he doesn't have the muscle, it's the muscle tone. So he could still build muscle and everything.

SPEAKER_03 56:17

Um so you're saying he's tone-deaf?

SPEAKER_00 56:20

Well, he is tone deaf.

SPEAKER_03 56:21

Is he really?

SPEAKER_00 56:22

I'm tone deaf and he gets it from me. Like I'm so tone deaf I cannot talk to somebody with an accent because I can't understand them. I don't know what you talking about, man, well you can't talk to someone with an accent.

SPEAKER_03 56:33

You're southern as fuck. You have an accent. I mean, like you've like come in the end, I'm like, what are you doing? You're talking about a foreign accent, I think.

SPEAKER_00 56:43

Yeah, like a foreign accent, and it's any sort of foreign accent. Like the different English, I don't know if you want to call them dialects. I mean, they're accidents, but uh, I can understand those for the most part. Now, I don't know, no, no, no, no. They're called dialects. Sometimes Josh has to translate for me when we go to Louisiana.

SPEAKER_03 56:58

In all fairness, I am studying dialects and motherfucking I need translation. It's like that scene on a hot fuzz.

SPEAKER_00 57:09

But like my a lot of my kids' doctors, some of the some of the best doctors we've ever been to, they're they're African and they have a very strong accent. And I'm like, I'm sorry, doctor, but I need you to slow down and repeat it because I can't understand what you're saying. And it's not that they're not speaking, they're pe they're speaking perfectly fine English. I there's just something about the way I register tones that I cannot understand um accents.

SPEAKER_03 57:32

So what you're saying is you would suck at speaking Mandarin. Yes, it's a dumb language.

SPEAKER_00 57:38

Very much so.

SPEAKER_03 57:40

Oh man, you gotta love that uh highway traffic. Um all right, so Peanut Butter Falcon. Here's here's a question. Uh, do you think all three movies do a good job of representing uh Down syndrome when they represent Down syndrome?

SPEAKER_00 58:00

I think so, yes. Um, especially champions, you had two main characters with Down syndrome, and they were different from one another. One of them had to live at home, was afraid to shower, the other one lived on his own, held a job, and it sh to me that that really showed that not everybody with Down syndrome is the same just because they have Down syndrome. There are, you know, they have varying abilities just like typical people have varying abilities. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:30

I liked the profoundness of him. Uh the one that's uh related to the girl. Yeah, the girl, by the way, the girl actresses from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. Again, I'm bad at names, so I don't know this. Uh and I feel like every time someone from Always Sunny in Philadelphia comes up on this show, I have to remind you guys I'm bad with names, even though they're funny.

SPEAKER_00 58:52

It's something Olsen, like Caitlin Olson's or something. Because there's she has another show on TV right now that I watch.

SPEAKER_03 58:58

Yeah. So she plays the sister, and it's funny because when they're trying to sort out this complicated dynamic, because the Woody you said Woody Harrelson's. Woody Harrelson, yeah. Um, when his character is contemplating dating or not dating and all that shit. Doing the sex things, yeah, yeah, and then he's talking to a dude about you know, I thought you want to move out, and he's like, I can't move out. This was the profound part for me. It was like, oh fuck, like for me, as someone who is not immediately intimately involved with um someone with Down syndrome, oh yeah, duh, of course, they have the same sort of concerns and considerations as anyone else. Now, before we get uh anything else out of Peanut Butter Falcon, I did want to real quick touch on some other examples of intellectual disabilities. So, like Forrest Gump, uh, he's he's not Down syndrome, Forrest Gump. Um I am Sam, not Down syndrome. Um, but these are people that are playing people that are quote unquote slow.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:09

And I I think you you see a lot more representation for probably what would be considered autism because those you can somebody, you know, you know, your standard edition person can play somebody with autism because a lot of times people with autism they look just like everybody else. They don't have the physical characteristics that come along with Down syndrome, like you know, the the sloped eyes and the flat forehead, um, and the like the structural build of someone with Down syndrome is different from your standard edition person. Yeah. So you're not gonna see somebody without Down syndrome playing somebody with Down syndrome, but you will see somebody without autism playing somebody with autism.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:54

And um, you know, there's two other movies I wanted to touch on related sort of to what you're saying. Uh if it's related, pull it back in. Uh, and that would be I sent you a clip, did you watch it, of the scene from The Virgin Suicides? So there's that, and then the second one being um um oh god Tropic Thunder of all things. Because, you know, that's when you get into you never go full.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:28

Never go full.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:29

You can say it, I can't say it.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:31

Never never go full retard. Like I said, that was our first date. That was the first movie we ever saw.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:38

And um it's and I I think you know having seeing it now, even though yes, they were making a joke of it, I think they were were legitimately making a point. Like you don't, when you are playing somebody with one of these disabilities, you cannot take it too far.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:58

It's almost like they're they're making the point of you you need to the reason we get away with Sean Penn playing uh a handicapped person. I mean that's the wrong word.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:14

I mean it it works.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:15

The reason that Sean Penn gets away with playing who he plays is because he doesn't go all the way with it.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:22

He did a fantastic job with that role, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:25

And it's the same with even for Skump, even though that's again, that's not Downs, but it is probably autistic, which at the time no one was using the word autistic back then. Uh, but that's essentially what he is, kind of, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:39

That's I would I would say um I'm not a psychologist. Oh, that was I mean, I would put that more along the lines of which we don't use anymore. It's it's a spectr it's you know the spectrum now. Um the autism spectrum disorder. So they're like, oh, you can have be on this end of the spectrum, be on that end. But we used to have what was called Asperger's, which is more of like the social aspect that comes along with autism and not being able to pick up social cues and interact with people the way a neurotypical person would.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:11

Yeah. Um break.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:15

Um, we can wait until we see people walk out.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:17

Okay, cool, cool, cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:18

Uh so then uh I did want to say the virgin suicide scene. Did you see that? Because that I really wanted to ask you about in terms of representation, because it's a difficult scene to read. Um for anyone that doesn't know the Virgin Suicides is Frances Fort's uh Coppola's daughter's first film, Sophia Coppola, brilliant filmmaker. Sophia Coppola, brilliant filmmaker, and this was her first out the gate, and she made it a uh it's based on a book, but she did not shy away from this scene where there's this kid with Down syndrome who comes into this party, and you know, it was right after she had a suicide attempt. And this character is not for your context, because you haven't seen the movie, he's not in the movie before this. He's just in this scene. Just in that one scene, and it's a strange thing in there, and I feel strange watching it because it flirt it's almost like it's flirting with this idea of the only uh uh positive attention that she seems to get is from this guy with it's I don't I don't know how to read that scene, to be completely honest with you. What were your thoughts when you watched it?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:43

I mean to me it just seemed like they were trying to include him. Um you could see mom was nervous about leaving him, so it was obviously something that they don't do all the time. Um but not having seen the rest of the movie, I didn't realize that was the only scene he was in.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:59

Yeah. Alright. Um we're gonna pause here, but when we get back, you're gonna we're gonna talk about the um the um oh, how they treated the person.

unknown 1:05:15

Okay. All right.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:16

And we're back, and we've got Caden in the car with us now. So if you hear any extra noise, that's what that is. Um we're gonna wrap things up pretty soon. But before we do, I was uh, like I said, bringing up the way that the do you like the way that the the boys and were interacting with that character? Like it to me it seemed like they were both trying to include be inclusive but also being what young boys will be.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:48

Yeah. I think it it it came across like they were almost like they were trying too hard, but I think sometimes kids do that when they realize that somebody is different.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:59

Um so it Came across pretty genuine to me.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:03

It did feel like super like what you would. It was like, oh, these are not bad dudes, but also they're not having their best moment. Which is how some people are. Like we've we've had situations where if you know, part of my thing is I don't like when people uh pretend that they're not flawed.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:25

Yeah. Like we're all people, we're all flawed.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:27

There's no perfection. Exactly. Um, so peanut butter falcon. Great story, takes place in North Carolina and absolutely worth it. Um, you know, I am seeing how close we are towards the end of time. So I think, do you have any like we have enough time where if you actually have something you wanted to bring up, we can do that. Um, topic-wise, with this, do you feel how do you feel in general about how people with Down syndrome are represented in uh the Hollywood, you know, I think with course before Caden, which you know, he's only seven, so before Caden, I don't think I paid much attention to people with Down syndrome in Hollywood.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:18

Um you'd see someone on like an episode of a TV show here and there, but nothing that I I never stopped to think about it until I had Caden. And what I've seen as far as representation since having him has for the most part been positive. I don't think I've ever seen one where I'm like, oh god, what is why do they do that?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:36

Oh, but it's there.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:38

I'm sure it is. Um, but I have not seen anything yet. Um, of course, most of the stuff I've seen has been stuff that was made more recently. That's right. You know, um, I mean, champions and peanut butter falcon, they've both been within the last what five to seven years.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:57

Yeah. Uh that's pretty much exactly right. And it to me, I'm still amazed uh at the talent and the performances they were able to get out of the characters, especially in Champions.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:13

I love the girl in Champions.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:16

Oh my gosh, she was so funny. She was a sassy young woman.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:22

Did you get to the part where um she kicks Woody Harrelson out of the changing room and it was like players only? She's like, Step back, or I'm gonna meetoo your ass.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:32

No, that's hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:33

You've got to finish it.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:34

Just the line of like her immediately being like, You can't date me. I can't remember how she said it, but like that alone was just like yummy.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:42

And she kept everybody in check. Like, if somebody was like, I'm not gonna do it, she's like, get up now, do it. That's that's I mean, that's Caden. Like he's the bossy one, he's gonna tell you what to do when to do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:53

That's that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:55

That's and then I also I was impressed with so there's the like I said, there's two two guys with Down syndrome um in the movie, one of them short, the other one relatively tall. He was almost Woody Harrelson's height. I want to think I looked it up and he's almost six foot tall, which I don't know how much you know about Down syndrome. That is rare. Um most um men with Down syndrome, they're going to be like, you know, five, five, five, six. Um Caden, I would be very surprised if he does not turn out like that taller kid because on a whole family. Well, on a typical growth scale, he is in the 95th percentile for height for his age on a typical scale. If you put him on the down syndrome scale, he's literally off the scale.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:48

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:48

So when it comes to seven-year-old, seven-year-old boys with Down syndrome, he is taller than almost every one of them based on the scale.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:57

Interesting. Well, I appreciate having you on the show, and I hope that we can do this again sometime soon. Uh, we do got to wrap things up, and um, this is Danielle, and I'm Topher Mack, and this is Shadows That Shine, a movie podcast. Thank you for listening. Bye.