Topic: The Odyssey (2026)

This week we find out what Topher Mac thought of the (possible) film of year by Christopher Nolan: “The Odyssey”.  There will be a spoiler free section before he gets into the full review.  

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Clink clink clink. It's time to begin. Clink clink clink. I said it's time to begin talking about the man. Clink, clink, the myth, clink, clink, little legend, clink, clink, clinking it, clink, clink. I'm Topher Mack, not Travis Scott. You know, I didn't know who Travis Scott was.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

So there are people complaining about how it was distracting to see him at the beginning of the movie. And I'm over there like, I don't, I don't know who this guy is, but he's doing a good job. Um, hi, I'm Topher Mack, as I just mentioned, and this is Shadows that Shine, a movie podcast. And today is the day that we all come together to discuss Christopher Nolan's 13th film, The Odyssey. Before we do, I did want uh I did want to bring up, you know, last week, because it was uh an oversight of mine, I feel really bad that I didn't mention that a great actor passed away. His name, Sam, uh, I'm gonna mispronounce his last name, Nil. Sam Nil uh is what I think you're supposed to say it as. Yeah, he was older, but I would have, you know, I would have liked more from him. Now he did have a robust and a robust and full um resume. Some of the mov obviously everyone knows him from Jurassic Park, but but did you know he was Damien in the final conflict? That was the third omen movie. Did you know that he also was um the lead in the mouth of madness in the movie called In the Mouth of Madness? Um, I had he's brilliant in that, and he's brilliant like every time I've seen him, to be honest with you. Jungle Book, he uh I remember him being good in that, but I especially remember him outside of the genre as being um bicentennial man, he was Sir in that, and I mean he gives a beautiful performance. Uh he did a lot of great stuff. He also, because this is a director, um, this is a director's podcast, I think. Like a director focused podcast, I mean, and he has directed a feature film called The Brush Off. I don't know a lot about it. It seems to be well viewed, but it also seems to be a uh political movie, not like political in terms of like a documentary, but political in terms of it deals with politics of the area, and I believe it's like an Australian film. Yeah, Australian Minister of the Arts investigates suspicious death of a disgruntled artist. So maybe it was political, maybe it wasn't. I haven't seen it, I can't say, but he directed it, and this film came out uh in 2004. So it's cool that he also tried to direct to big deal. I'm uh I'm jazzed that not only was he a great actor, but he, like Tom Hanks, took a crack at the old directing. Now, let us get started with the box office. You know, I have uh last week, I mean, really for weeks I've been saying this is gonna be the movie of the year. I still believe that. Uh, how did it uh how did it perform in the box office is the question. And I'm gonna tell you, uh the answer is well, it performed well. It actually exceeded the expectations. It was projecting at 80 to 120 million. Well, guess what? For July 17th to the 9. Excuse me, July 17th to the 19th, it performed in first place domestically with 125 uh 124.5 million dollars. Who buddy, yeah. Internationally, it brought in 139.6 million dollars for Universal Pictures for a total of 264 million dollars in the first three days. That is substantial. Now, I haven't been able to check, you know. Uh we tend to record on Tuesday nights, not always, but usually. And uh this is Tuesday night, and if I was a better person, I would have looked up. The point is, I I the questions come up in conversations I've had with friends is it gonna hit a billion dollars before Spider-Man 4 comes out? Um, which is significant of a movie as well. I think it will. My friend, uh, one of my uh dear friends, friend of the channel, uh I don't want to say his name because I don't know if he has a gimmick name that I have to call him by because he writes and draws as well. And so I'll just say uh a good friend of mine uh does not think he'll hit that mark in time. I do. I do think that he uh will hit a billion dollars before Spider-Man opens at the end of the month. Uh which, by the way, that's gonna be a billion-dollar movie, which means that we get to start calling Tom Harlan $2 billion Tom, because this year he's gonna have two $2 billion movies that he uh was a significant part of.

unknown 6:05

Ha!

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Good for him. Uh the two-hour and 52-minute movie, you know, it was seven minutes longer than I had been led to believe it was gonna be. It did great, man. And we're gonna talk about that movie later today. Uh, who came in second? Moana added $19 million, which is strong considering how many other people were watching other movies. $82 million domestically is their total. $96.4 million internationally is their total. So far, that film it's lost money. It's $178.4 million. I'm not surprised by this. This is a movie that I thought would do a little bit of business because it is still Disney at the end of the day, but you know, Dwayne Johnson is really starting to show himself to be box office poison. I think that he is no longer the people's champion, you know. Um, I just uh I have a hard time getting behind him. Uh, and he, you know, he killed the the DC EU with uh the movie that he came out with a few years ago with that. I think it was uh Black Adam. And uh now he's gonna kill live action remakes, which I'm okay with because why are we doing a live action of Moana? Hey, third place minions and monsters, 14.8 million dollars was added to its total gross. Also, before I I go there, let me back up just a second. Moana's worldwide total so far, and it's been out for a couple of weeks, uh is less than is is less than the combined total of the Odyssey's first three days. I mean that just tells you right there, one, how successful one is, and two, how disappointing another is. All right, back to uh the minions and monsters movie. Now, this movie again, significant because it has Trey Parker playing one of the roles uh in it, his voice acting, as well as George Lucas making an appearance in it. Hey, cool, right? Um, I did just mention that they added oh, you know, is that right? Yeah, 14.8 million dollars that it added to its total for a total now of 137.6 million dollars domestically, 220.3 millionally, worldwide they did 357.9 million dollars for Universal Pictures. Hey, Universal is making some money right now. That's right. At least they're not making bacon, you know what I'm saying? Um all right. Uh that was that was a deep cut, by the way. You gotta be like a special features guy with uh physical media to get that Trey Parker reference of making bacon with making. Uh Toy Story 5 added also added $14.8 million this weekend, bringing its total to a staggering $430.9 million dollars domestically. Internationally, $527.5 million for a total of $958.4 million dollars. It will likely cross the billion dollar threshold this week, likely, but not definitely because the Odyssey, whoo, it's making money. Uh then after that comes Evil Dead Burns continuing to perform, continuing to perform. Evil Dead Burns, uh Burns uh, of course. Uh let me back up. Toy Story 5 was a Walt Disney Pictures release. Uh, I don't know if I mentioned Moana's as well. Those are so obvious, I for I always forget to say. Well, Evil Dead Burns is a Warner Brothers slash Newline cinema release, depending on if it's domestic or international. And that brings us to 24.1 million, uh 24.2 million dollars domestically, 27.2 internationally, for a total of 51.4 million dollars. Did I say that right? 51.4 million dollars worldwide is what Evil Dead Burns has brought in, and they'll probably stick around this number, you know, give or take another million, uh, maybe two million, I don't know. Um they they are slowing down. So that is what this weekend gave us. I mean, I think it's even worth noting the significant difference in the daily totals. Uh, Sunday's daily total, for example, was $31.7 million for the Odyssey. Second place was Moana on that day, $5.9 million. I mean, the the family movies are doing very well at this point, but you know, the Odyssey is rated R. And we're again gonna get deep into that a little bit later. Here we go. Uh the weekend total for the 17th to the 19th of July was up 50.9 percent with 193 million dollars. Of course, as I mentioned before, the Odyssey being the number one release, it had 30 releases, significantly less releases than every, I mean, literally less than half of the week before, and it went up by half in terms of gross. That's fantastic. It's fantastic. I'm happy to hear that. I hope it makes a lot more money. I think it um I think it's worth mentioning also that uh uh The Invite, Young Washington, Obsession, still making money, supergirl, and disclosure day uh rounded up the top 10. And I say it's say that Obsession, which is now available uh online, you can watch it through the Peacock app. They didn't pay me to say that, but I figured you'd want to know. And there's I mean they're still putting $2.5 million through the weekend up there. That's that's impressive. That is impressive. Alright. Let's get out of all this numbers stuff. I know that it's some of y'all like it and some of y'all don't. I like it. I care about those numbers. Um all of that to say, I watched The Odyssey on IMAX. Did I watch it 70 millimeter IMAX? No, I wasn't able to do that because there's like six of those things in the country, and I don't live near one of them. Because I certainly would have gone to see it the way it was intended if it was a geographical possibility for me. But I do have an IMAX screen near me, and so I did watch on this standard IMAX and went to the Odyssey. Now we're still at spoiler-free territory. Um I'm just gonna tell you real quick my spoiler-free, and then we're gonna get into the weeds. Okay. I'm Topher Mack. This is Shadows that Shine, a movie podcast, and I'm here right now to tell you the Odyssey. Christopher Nolan delivered. Because that man always delivers, but I got a little caveat. I thought long and hard about what I was gonna grade it. Was this gonna be a five-star release, or was this gonna be a four and a half star release? Uh, or or was it gonna be lowered? Well, it ended up with four and a half star. First time I watched it, I watched it IMAX. Second time I watched it, I watched it in a standard screen, no extra anything, just a normal standard, the exact same screen I watched Saturday night on, as a matter of fact. Um, and I was wowed by Saturday night. We'll get into that one day. Uh The Odyssey delivers, but it's different than I was expecting. And the it takes a few minutes to get used to what he's doing on that first watch. I thought it was just me, but I've seen other people mention it. Not a lot of people, but other people mention that it takes about 20 or 30 minutes for you to adjust to to what's happening here. Um Nolan's nonlinear storytelling style continues in this film. I was frustrated that some parts of the story were not front-loaded. I wanted it to happen and get out of the way. So I was a little distracted because of that. I was also a little bit distracted by uh, I mean, there's no significant spoiler here that Zandaya is in the movie. Xanda is the only person in this movie, even though she gives a good performance, who doesn't um basically she distracted me. Like I'm over there looking and I'm going, that's Zandaya. You know, I'm over there thinking about the Spider-Man movies because that's my interaction with her so far. I'm not thanking the character she's playing. Now she does a great job, and by the end of it, I'm happy that she's there because she delivers every single time she needs to do something. She does it in an excellent way. Uh I genuinely couldn't imagine anyone else playing that part, uh, believably, especially with the the little twist of it all. Um everybody else, even I mean, a little tiny bit with Tom Holland, I could say that about. But for the most part, I actually just saw Tom Holland as Tom Holland uh. I can't do these Greek names, man. I'm bad enough for names that are in English. I can't do the Greek names. Uh Tom's uh again, 20 minutes in, now he's now he's the character, and you can see him in this thing. I'm not nearly as distracted with him in this movie as I was when I watched Uncharted. Because in Uncharted, the whole time you're going, oh hey, look at Spider-Man. I didn't feel that way this time. Uh, I think he did a great job. As a matter of fact, uh, I think almost everyone in this movie gave career performances. And that is especially true of our lead Matt Damon. I don't think Matt Damon has ever done better than Matt Damon did in this movie because it's not that he gave uh glorious, wonderful speeches. It's that not for one second did I doubt this is Odysseus. He was Odysseus from start to finish. There was uh noticeable difference between years. He sounded different, he looked different, he looked like he aged, he looked like he was younger, uh, and he gave a very good performance. I really do believe it's the best performance he's ever given that I've seen. I have always liked him and never thought he was a great actor. Well, I take that back now. You know, like now, yeah, no, he is a great actor. And I think I've just been hard on him because some of his stuff feels like it's in the same area. Well, this movie pushed it over. He's now one of the greats in my mind and deserved his place. And it was uh here's the thing they got this new uh casting Oscar, and uh I don't know if this is gonna qualify because Christopher Nolan offered all these people their roles, so I don't know if that's how that works for this, but this is the best cast movie I've seen um since funny enough. I just said Saturday Night Live, uh Saturday Night and uh the movie about Saturday Night Live, and I think that since that movie, this is the best casting of an ensemble that I've seen. Every single person delivers, every single person is incredible, everyone plays the best uh versions. Uh if if someone is sitting inside of their typecast, they play the best version of that typecast they've ever played. If someone is outside of their typecast, then they're not uh they're not coming up short there either. They're I mean it really is a fantastic film. So that's my spoiler-free, and I'm gonna take a sip of water and have you talk amongst yourselves while the people who want to pause and go see the movie, pause and go see the movie. You're gonna talk amongst yourself and say, Yeah, tell me how what did you think of the film? What'd you think?

SPEAKER_02 19:42

Go ahead, tell me right now. Yes, I just drank water live on the air.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

Yes, I just burped because I'm an idiot. Uh this is a good time to remind everyone that we record uh season one at least. I don't know if it'll be the same for season two, but we record live to tape. There are no edits, uh, we don't pull things out. What is simply is um and uh that being said, let's get it, let's just jump right into this. I don't want to waste any time. The Odyssey is awe-inspiring. Okay, I intentionally did not say what movies I watched this week until now because it has to do with what we're gonna talk about. I decided to watch the 1981 uh Clash of the Titans. I was like, it's in the same genre, you know that Nolan had to watch it both when he was young and then re-watched it as he prepared for this. He had to have. You know that it was special for its time in 1981. What it was doing, only Star Wars and uh 2001 of Space Odyssey was doing better when it came to special effects. Like they had really interesting special effects, but and also they had shortcomings and it looked a little uh cheap in some areas, and the acting was not great, even though they had some incredible actors in it, such as Lawrence Olivier, uh Meredith Burgess, and um um I can't remember her name. See, I just did so good because I remembered Rocky's coach and I remembered one of the most famous actors of all time, and now I'm forgetting the name of Maggie Maggie Bleepity Bleepy. She's in the Harry Potter movies, okay? You know who I'm talking about. She's the main teacher that everybody loves. She's a dame. Um, you know, like a sir in English like thing. Uh, she was fantastic. I've already put my phone out of reach, so I can't look her name up. You'll look it up. It's not like you're listening to a podcast to learn things. Oh god, I gotta get better at this. One day there'll be a budget, and I can I could just look to someone and say, tell me this, and they'll tell me it. All right, look. That movie was uh, I ended up giving it two and a half stars, and it would have been less, but I was uh, you know, I wanted to respect the clear hard work and inner and innovation of Clash of the Titans. But when you watch that movie and then Odyssey is fresh in your mind, you go, holy crap. That's the difference between stick figures and and you know Michael O Michelangelo. Michael O. I'm failing right now. Okay, can you tell it's late at night? I I am astonished that that the Odyssey is so in camera. There are things in that movie that you think in your head, there's no way that they did that in camera. I know that Nolan will touch up here and there with CGI. He avoids it at all. I mean, he really super duper avoids it. But I there's a few things where I'm like, well, there's no other way to have done that. Like, uh now we're in spoiler territory, so let's let's talk. There's no other way you could have done the Cyclops, except they did it totally different. First of all, I don't know if you know this, but the Cyclops uh scene was shot in Zeus's cave. Uh, in in the real cave called Zeus' Cave, they say Zeus was born in that cave. It has cultural, significant cultural meaning to that age and era. Back in the day, it would have been Holy Land. Of course, nobody believes in Greek and Roman mythology anymore. They set the place up to be an actual sound stage and filmed inside of it. Uh, when they walk through and you see that swarm of bugs, I thought it was flies, it's bees, and there were actual beastings that occurred. They said it wasn't that bad, but there were some beastings that occurred. I thought that was fascinating. But nowhere near as fascinating as finding out that there's an actor playing that part who's the same actor that was uh the robot in Interstellar, and they're doing all these uh there they pushed special effects to places I could not have imagined they could have gone. Everything about this movie made me think that it had to have been modern approach, except everything looked a little bit better than like the best CG has ever been. And now I know why, because when I go home and I do the research and I find out everything has been done. Here's a great one. Cersei, I believe, is the name of the character, the one with the the pig scene, all that stuff with the pig, all the like reaching into mouths and all of that stuff, all that's practical effects. All of that happened in camera on the day that was just brilliant acting and fantastic uh special effects, non-digital special effects, extraordinary. Um, and I go on and on and on. Uh, I mean, shooting on water is extremely difficult. I don't know if you've ever heard that, uh, but it is. There's a reason why we don't get a lot of stuff shot in the ocean. It's extremely difficult to shoot in large bodies of water of any kind, it causes tons of problems. Uh, there's famous stories about Jaws, there's famous stories about Pirates of the Caribbean, there's famous stories about even Titanic, which was technically on a soundstage, like they turned water into a sound stage and still had some issues with that, nowhere near as much as the aforementioned movies. Well, the RC was no different. But here's the thing: they came in nine days early and under budget. That's extraordinary. That's extraordinary. The whole thing shot on IMAX for the first time. Of course, um, I'm bad with names, and I feel bad that I won't be able to say the man's name. Uh, but one of the inventors, one of the technological uh gurus of IMAX passed away. But he did finish handling the dailies for all of these. So his this is the last uh film he touched, and he did they say he did all of his job, but really I think he did 95% of his job because he would have certainly helped in uh post-production, but he he had everything ready for them for post-production, which is uh a beautiful thing, because that means that this man knows that his life goal, which was very similar to Christopher Nolan's, of getting a uh narrative feature film made with IMAX, it happened. And man, I tell you, seeing the difference between IMAX screen and a standard screen, it's such a significant difference. I normally don't care about IMAX. My favorite uh screen to watch on is actually Dolby Vision. That's my favorite way to experience a movie. But this movie, every single time I want to see it IMAX. I saw it not IMAX once. I didn't like the way he uh put together some of the frames on it. I actually think it's some of the worst um reframing I've ever seen from Christopher Nolan. Because he does that with other movies that he has IMAX shots for, but this is the first time that some of the like some of the things just stick out to me in ways that it's never stuck out negative things in Nolan. But when you watch the IMAX version, none of that's there. By the way, on the remake, uh not not remake, on the rewatch that I did the next day on the regular screen, that 20 minutes at the beginning were fixed for me. Because once I saw what the story was that he was trying to tell, it was better instantly, and that's where I was torn between a four and a half star or five star uh review. I landed on four and a half stars just because there's that little bit missing, and I can't I I wish it could be 4.75 stars. He's so close to it being a perfect film, uh, and he has made perfect films before, which is like you know, I don't know. Maybe I'll change my mind later because I feel the same way about The Dark Knight, where I think Dark Knight's uh a nearly perfect film, but there's like two moments in the whole movie that would make me question giving it that, but it's also the dark knight. So I I don't know. We'll we'll address that whenever the day comes that I finally review one of my all-time favorites. But right now we're talking about the Odyssey. Right now we're talking about um how about this on that massive screen, seeing the incredibly beautiful Anne Hathaway getting older, and it was wonderful. She looked like a woman getting older. I kind of looked like nobody was wearing makeup in this. I don't know if they were, but it looked like nobody was wearing makeup, and if that's the case, and if that really was her without makeup, holy wow! She's I've always known she was out of my league, but she's way more out of my league than I thought she was. That woman looked beautiful, and looks aside, gave an incredible performance again, career performances out of everybody, and that moment that motherfucking uh skipping to another actor. When John Legazzamo showed up on screen, I audibly got excited. I love John Legazamo, man. He is a class for me. I like character actors, I like people that make weird choices. I don't even like all the choices he makes all the time, but I love seeing him work. He is great, we don't get enough from him, and I was giddy to see that one of my favorite directors of all time chose one of my favorite actors of all time. He's a top 20 actor for me. And seeing them work together and play together and deliver an extraordinary performance. Again, another career performance out of that man who has given a few career performances. Um, the dude that plays Batman in the latest Batman movie, uh, I think his name's Robert Patterson. Uh he was incredible. He was such a douchebag. And and he's teamed up with the guy that played Dr. Dre in straight out of Compton, who's also just you want to punch him in the face. It's like you're you're a dick. And you just know that they're wonderful people in real life, but like they so convincingly are dickheads. Like, I think the two best dickheads, quote unquote dickheads, on screen, uh Robert Patterson, and uh I would say the other one is um what's his name from uh a Star is Born remake. Uh he also was in um hmm. I'm really blanking on this guy. Well, he's a product of the actors studio. He studied there. Uh he directed a Star is Born as well, and I I can't remember his name right now. Uh he is in The Guardians of the Galaxy, he plays uh uh Rocket Raccoon. Those are the ones I'm gonna remember. Well, he plays a dickhead better than any because uh I'm actually thinking of his performance, Wedding Crashers, where you want to punch him in the face because you just believe him. And I feel the same way about Robert Patterson. It's like you want to punch him in the face, like you just genuinely want bad to befall him as he sits in the uh during the final fight of Odysseus slaying these uh douchebag suitors, and he's over there calling the shots and they're listening, and you you like hate everyone else more because they're listening to what he's saying and going along with it. It's just come on. Um, I've been thinking a lot about what my favorite uh set pieces for this movie, and I I think it's the the edge of Hades when they were there. I mean, it's just simple and wonderful. It it's the image that won't leave my head, it's beautiful and brilliant, and I and like it could have been more, and it wasn't, and in a weird way, it was the right choice to not be more. In fact, I love the some of the people have complained about some things that I love that he did. It is more accessible with the language that they used, it is, it's easier to connect to, and it and I would go as far as to say it just it it makes the existence of the project more justified. There has been uh decent Odyssey um presentations before. I mean, there was that mini-series in the 90s that I loved growing up watching. I've seen it three or four times, I haven't seen it in the last decade, but I loved it when I watched it. And so he does these things that are different. It's like I wasn't bothered that it wasn't period accurate costumes. Uh, it looked good enough, it didn't distract me, but I'm also not an expert. I have been there before where someone did something in a movie that was so wrong that it took me out. So that's a fair critique if someone wants to level that on there. Uh for in The Men Who Stare at Goats, it takes place in Fort Bragg. Of course, I've been all over Fort Bragg. Uh and when they're going on to base, the sign that they use is so not the sign for Fort Bragg that it was upsetting to even look at. I was like, no such sign like that exists. This is bullshit. And that's how other people must feel about the costuming. If you feel that way about the language, you're you're being I I will attack you for that. I think you're being silly and petty and ridiculous because at the end of the day, uh this was Greek. It wasn't in English. Saying dad or daddy is uh a reasonable thing to do, it's bringing it into the modern ear so that you can accept the extremity of some of the story aspects. Uh, I like that he toned down the gods. I like what he did with Zandei. I said earlier that I'd mentioned what was going on there, and paying off the Zeus's Law thing from the whole thing through, and then having her be a figment of his imagination. He he pictures that she's there. He it's the same exact thing that happens in the Dark Knight Rises with Rajagul, and that works so much better for me than if we would have had, like in Clash of the Titans, a bunch of great actors sitting around, you know, discussing the ideas of the story. No, we we see the movie take place. One of the screenplays I'm working on right now uh is taking an established work and ripping away a lot of what we know about it because I think that the story works on its own without needing the uh the extra frill around it. So I'm taking all the frill out of it and and making something with it. And I think Nolan did that with this by stripping away the gods, but the gods are still sort of there. Things still occur that allude to that being a possible reality. You can interpret those gods as being real in that story, and if you don't want that to be the reasoning why, it still works. That's what's wonderful about a director and a writer like Christopher Nolan because he will tell a story and he will ground that story where people like me who I just simply I don't like the fantasy genre. I'm not for someone that loved Greek mythology growing up, I'm not really big on watching Greek mythology. It's usually a very it was literally painful to watch Clash of the Titans for me. It was slow and boring, and and the language that they used was very they wished that they could be Shakespeare and they didn't come close because I like Shakespeare. Um occasionally, definitely occasionally, but I don't I've never been big on the fantasy genre, and that's that's part of what's impressive about me loving this movie, which it has taken time since I've seen the movie to love it. It it reminds me of um I think it was Woody Allen. Yeah, I know, I know people don't like Woody Allen, but listen, Woody Allen made a comment about Stanley Kubrick, that's the reason why I'm talking about him. Uh where he he had watched a Kubrick film and didn't like it. Or maybe it was Steven Spielberg that said this. And they didn't like the movie, and then they like went back later and re-watched it. It was one of the two of those directors, and they went back like a year or a few months later and they watched it and they liked it a little bit better, and then they watched it again, and then they liked it even more, and then after like the fifth or sixth watch, they think it's one of the best movies that's ever been made. And some works of art happen to be like that, where it just hits you in a way where you're not ready for it, and you have to adjust to it. And a movie like this, I think that's what it is for me. I already think it's good. I think the more times I watch this movie, the better I think it's gonna be. It it is the best epic that I've seen since if you want to call Pirates of the Caribbean one an epic. And that's I mean, kind of the closest to it, but like really this goes way back in terms of epic. It goes, I mean, yeah, they did the Odyssey in the 90s, but like you gotta go back for cinema epic, way back to just before the collapse of the studio system, to to something like Lawrence of Arabia or um which I have not seen yet. I just know uh a lot of things about it, and I know that's a very uh good movie from the peripheral. It's gonna be funny when I watch it, and if I don't like it. Uh this movie it's so funny though for me. I've I don't know if I've ever seen a movie that actually felt epic. I mean, I I've watched Spartacus five times, I think, and it's technically an epic and it's impressive, and there's some awe-inspiring moments, but you know, this is one of those times where Nolan, who also looks up to Kubrick just like me, who also holds that man in very high regard just like me, I think he this is him officially outdoing Kubrick. The Odyssey next to Spartacus, it's not even fair. Of course, you know, it can be argued that Spartacus was not completely Kubrick's, but I don't I mean the last couple, the last two or three Nolan films have been arguably better than Kubrick's movies, in my eyes. That's what I think. Maybe you feel differently. If you feel differently, you can go to Instagram at Shadows That Shine and you can comment on the post for this episode and say, uh Topher Matt, you're an idiot. You don't know what you're talking about. Hey, buddy, I don't agree with you. Kubrick is the greatest ever. And then I'm like, but Kubrick is the greatest ever. But maybe he's not now. Maybe, maybe Nolan is officially in greatest ever territory. I mean, that's a conversation I want to have with people. I'm gonna have to bring someone on one day just to have the conversation of uh elite directors, and then from there we're gonna have to have a conversation about who's the greatest to ever do this. Now, I uh since we're talking about elite directors, let's see what we got on time. Yeah, we're okay. Um, since we're talking about elite directors, I think an elite director is a director who either has never had a miss, or if they had a miss, their miss was still better than most people's hit. Most people's best still it's like on par with that. An example of that uh would be uh Tarantino's uh movie. Um what is it with the the stunt car? I think it's Deathproof. That's an example of a movie, which I actually think is better than people give it credit for. Uh, but next to everything else that uh Tarantino has done, it would it looks weak next to everything else. But if you took all of the other stuff away, and that was the only movie he ever came out with, you'd be wanting more. You'd go, this is weird. Weird and different, and I like it. And then, you know, one day I'll I'll dig deep into some of the themes of that movie, and you'll see what a truly personal film that is to him. Which he doesn't really talk about. But I made some observations and noticed some things, and and Deathproof is is actually through the right lens a far better movie than it's presented to be, because it's presented to be hacky. But it's actually it's actually got some real art to it. Anyways, I say all that to say there are some elite directors like that. There are people like him, there are people like Edgar Wright, there are people like Stanley Kubrick. You know, Stanley Kubrick's first film is not overly great, but for a first film, it's better than most. You know, um, especially because that's technically it's a student film. It's not even like it's the same thing as saying that Cannibal is Trey Parker's first film. It's a student film. Does it count? You're learning in the process. Does it count? I mean, Killer's Kiss and uh The Killers, I think they're good movies. I think relative to the later work that they they are, especially Killing Kiss, it's hard to hold up to later work. But it's still brilliant. So uh someday I want to sit down with some people that I respect and I want to have the conversation of elite directors, um and you know, and then have some sort of term to cover secondary uh tier directors that are almost elite, who have had a couple of screw-ups, but their impact is significant enough to warrant a special nod above the thousands of directors that have existed in the mainstream. Uh but there's a very small number of people who have delivered every time. You know, I'm thinking of James Cameron, I'm thinking of David Fincher, I'm thinking of uh, you know, Christopher Nolan, which is why I brought all that stuff and went through that tangent because Christopher Nolan has simply put not made a bad movie. He has made movies that some people don't like. Some people don't like tenant. I heard uh on the way out of the bathroom, I was uh you know, at the hand washing station, I started chatting with uh another moviegoer, and we were discussing Nolan, and he goes, and he seemed to really know what he was talking about, and he's like, I don't like tenant. And then I make the same comment I make all the time. Well, I think people that don't like tenant don't like tenant because they didn't see it on the big screen. And he says, I saw it on the big screen, and I go, What? And he starts explaining why he doesn't like it. And I start going, Oh, well, that's an interesting point of view. It's it's he thinks that it was going too far. Like he uh with Inception had really pushed the boundaries of intellectualism. That's not the words that guy uses, it's the words I'm using that that incorporates everything that guy was saying, uh, I think. Uh it really is it's high art at that point. And 10 it, it's almost like it's trying to be as well, but it doesn't succeed in that way. And I was like, yeah, but like if you watch it the way that I watched it, I turned my brain off and watched the movie. And I liked it. I mean, it's not my favorite of his, it ranks near the bottom for me. Of course, I'm a weirdo because uh the movie I dislike the most from him is a lot of people's favorite movie from him, and I'll tell you what that is one day. I'm not gonna tell you now. Gotta leave something, you know. Gotta gotta gotta have something later on for you to look forward to, man. Yeah. Well, I could talk forever. You know that. What I wanna say before we go is oh, yeah, actually, yeah, sorry, I almost completely forgot. There's actually a big thing I want to talk about first. Uh, there was a technical choice that was made in the sound department uh that I loved. Uh, I when I went to watch this second time, I went with a dear friend of mine who said I that he was like, Tover, I like the movie, but uh uh there were two things I hated. I mean, because they made me physically uncomfortable and ill. And again, we're in spoiler land, so I can say these things freely. Uh, one of them, he said he felt deeply uncomfortable when the earwax uh was put in, or the beeswax was put into the ears. And I said to him, Whereas you hate that that happened, I loved it. It was a brilliant choice. And to have music playing during that moment and to kill, I mean, it was great sound design, it was fucking great sound design, and it and it brought immersion into it. And he was like, I don't like that there was immersion, I don't like that that happened. And he also, just before saying that, had cited the uh the entirety of the Cyclops and the sound. I loved that moment. He did not, I I saw what was going on. He was bring he, I've I don't think I've ever seen Nolan do this, I've never noticed it. He would bring the volume as quiet as he could be, he would have as little going on as possible, and then immediately juxtaposed that with loudness, and it was done to an effect that it created true horror with the Cyclops, and it did it again um in a couple of the other areas because this movie has different genres inside of it. Like he keeps going around talking about it's like six movies, it really is like six movies in one, okay, and we're talking about uh body horror in the Cersei scene, we're talking about um uh true monster horror with this, you know, giant cyclops who look different than I would have expected. They they went with I didn't like it's not the choice I would have made for how he looked in terms of like the face, but it kind of works, and it was it was it worked enough that I was all for it by the end of it, not immediately. I was taken aback at first, and I was still trying to get on board with this movie, but um having him difficult to understand uh when he starts screaming out, I thought was the right choice because then you're immersed, you're sitting on the same level as these soldiers, and you're sitting on the same level as Odysseus when that happens. You're you're not being spoon-fed narrative, so you don't hear him crying out, uh Father Poseidon, uh this man has blinded me. You know, and I get that everyone's pissed off about the nobody joke. Well, you know what? It didn't need to be there. I like what he did here instead. I like that he brought fear, and not like a scary movie fear, but like a different kind of fear, like a the I felt like I was there, and then you know, later in the thing, when we're dealing with earwax, I mean I keep saying earwax, we were dealing with beeswaxing the ears. I feel like I'm there. I thought it was wonderful. I thought not showing the sirens up close was a wonderful choice. I I he did as the movie went on, the choices he made became better and better and better and better. And you know, I did not love the beginning of the movie because frankly, I wanted them to deal with the Trojan horse right away. I wanted to see them do it, I wanted to see the whole thing play out, I wanted to see that, and then I wanted to see the journey home, but Nolan didn't do that, and on the first watch, you're taken aback by it and you're kind of a little bit pissed off by it. I was a little bit pissed off by it. Uh, not well, maybe not pissed off, I was disgruntled for sure. And then on the rewatch, you go, but it had to be that because the story that Nolan is telling, because yeah, you're telling the story of the Odyssey, but you're also telling the story of the Odyssey in the year 2026, or when he started telling this story, it was two or three years ago, and so he's talking about you know, you have that modern lens you're putting on it, you have um you have somebody who's looking at this absolute insane and absurd thing, every aspect of the thing, over the top and and highly dramatic. You know, the the war in the war never happened. This isn't based on true stories. Like some parts of it are believed to be sort of true, but it's true in the same way that it, you know, it's true in the same way that um Nightmare on Elm Street is a true story, and by that it, you know, Nightmare on Elm Street is uh Wes Wes Craven based that movie around a real person who just was trying so hard not to go to sleep because he kept telling everyone if he goes to sleep he's gonna die, and then he goes to sleep and he dies. So it is technically based on a true story, even though none of none of it is true. Well, it's the same thing with this, and I don't even know, uh, I'm not historically uh polished enough to know if the the Trojan horse really happened, but you do in this movie for the first time understand the Trojan horse in a different way, not as a clever war tactic, but as what it actually was a betrayal of that thing that we all took for granted. Like everyone follows Zeus's law, everyone has these rules of war in their head of what is fair and what is not fair to do. I did the Patriot last month, and it's the same sort of thing. It's like, well, this is how we agree to do things as people, and then someone every now and then will go, or we can do this. And you have someone here who is telling a story about this Trojan horse, and it's literally saying, uh, it's it's lying and saying we quit, and here is uh our sacrifice to, in this case, Poseidon, who's gonna get pissed off a lot during this story, but this is the beginning of it. Um, and then they bring the horse into the city, and they think that here is the this great empire has surrendered to us, and aren't we great? But it was a lie. It was shaking hands to stab them in the throat. This movie, this version of the story, told that version of it better than anyone ever, and they've drove that point home better than anyone ever has ever done it. This is a story about betraying your beliefs and then suffering consequences because you turned your back on that otherworldly agreement and bond that, you know, frankly, as a nation right now, I mean, there's so many examples of it's because we're living in the age where honor is died in this country. There is no honor, you know, we're being run, uh, no matter what side of the aisle you support. I think either of us could agree, any and all of us, even the people that support in either side, or there's there's deep levels of corruption, and the corruption comes, uh it used to come from like you know, I'm trying to do better, but like I sort of fell, and now it's this straight up like, no, like the only way I'm gonna get what I want is to be corrupt. And Odysseus sort of does that, and then you see Odysseus fill like a douchebag because he gets everyone killed through that sort of pinheaded selfishness.

SPEAKER_02 57:49

And I don't think you're supposed to say pinheaded anymore.

SPEAKER_01 57:54

My bad. I don't I don't know uh another word to quite cover what I want to cover there, but I I hope that you guys get what I'm saying. Uh I I think he told a beautiful story. I think, again, uh everyone has delivered in this movie above and beyond. It is truly a special film. Um, I need time to decide if I think it's the best so far this year. There have been very good movies that have come out. And I just can't wait for the next Nolan film. And we're gonna be waiting three or four years for it. We're gonna be waiting three or four years. Earliest we're gonna get one is 2029. And that makes, you know, uh there's rumors that he might finally try to tackle a horror film. Uh apparently someone has asked him point blank. I haven't seen the interview, but I've read that he has been asked point blank if he's ever gonna do a horror film. Seeing him do elements of horror in the Odyssey really make me want him to do it. And I really hope that he does something grounded in reality, and I hope that he does something super duper fucked up. He just hasn't found the right thing to inspire him. Well, after doing the Odyssey, I think it is time for you to pull back and time for you to do how how can you use all that you've learned along the way? And you've learned so much because I I just I don't think it's controversial to say that he's the best director working today. That his movies, which means his team, and they're often the same people, so they all deserve credit for it. His wife, Emma Thomas, uh, and his videographer. I'm sorry, not fucking videographer. What am I, idiot? His cinematographer, his director, photography, whatever you want to call these people. Um his crew is they're all they've all just proven they're at the top of their game. They've all just like even if you don't like the story, and even if it didn't work for you, I don't think anyone can deny that this is the most technically impressive film that has been made since I don't know, Jurassic Park, Titanic?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:25

I mean it's it's extraordinary. It felt real all the way through.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:33

So imagine if you've learned all that, and now you go to a smaller genre and you tell a simpler story, and you use all these techniques that you've learned along the way. And what do you do when you heighten something like horror? We are uh just a few short weeks away from the beginning of the spooky season. The spooky season is gonna be chock full of scary movies. We're gonna be covering all kinds of scary movies here at Shadows That Shine. We're gonna emphasize them shadows. Uh I am very I'm starting to get very excited about it. I I laid out of watching most horror films leading up to this. We're gonna do some deep dives, even some of the new stuff, some of the old stuff. We're gonna cover some of my favorite topics. We're gonna have several weeks of scary movies, and I might pepper something in there every now and then, something a little more lighthearted. Uh and then even after the spooky season ends, we'll have another Friday the 13th coming up towards the end of the year. I'm so excited that you guys are with me. I'm gonna wrap things up. Uh again, you can reach out to me, Topher Mac, uh, at Toper TV on Instagram. Uh, we do have stuff on Facebook. Um, nobody really interacts with the Facebook stuff. Um I mean, we really have a chance to have a conversation there. If you write on our wall, you know, at this stage, I'm gonna write back personally. You know, if it's a a year or two from now and we've grown into this big podcast, I can't make that promise. But right now I can make that promise. I'm gonna you write, I'll write back. I'll tell you what I think. You have uh something you want to talk about, film related, I'm gonna I'm gonna say something back. Same thing with an Instagram, it's harder to do it through Instagram because that's a picture app, but we still want your comments, your questions if you have questions. Uh you can also uh DM us. Our DMs are open for people that follow us. Thank you for listening. Um am I forgetting anything this time? There was another person that passed away. Uh, I don't know her name. She was a young actress that was in the the Godzilla versus Kong films. And uh so she was very young, of course. I hope that uh yeah, I wish peace for her family. Uh it was very tragic to hear. I'm I feel bad that I don't know her name, but I don't watch those movies, and it was a kid, and I'm not exactly trying to like follow the career of kids.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:31

Um, you know, still tragic nonetheless.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:40

I appreciate all of you for listening. If you've made it this far into the podcast, uh don't forget that we have a YouTube channel. Uh, we will begin posting stuff there fairly soon. Also, uh, I think that you get that by searching Shadows That Shine. I don't remember if we have a domain for that or not. All right, I've been Topramack. This is this has been Shadows That Shine, a movie podcast. My